Estate Talks | 4-minute read
CPE | Certified Probate Expert  | Probate Real Estate

Main Link: Estate Talks Podcast: What is a Certified Probate Expert?

 

This Executorium’s Estate Talks episode was broadcast on Wednesday, February 7, 2024.

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The certification, “Certified Probate Expert” designates someone who has completed Probate Mastery‘s instructional program.  Generally, these are real estate agents and brokers who service this industry sector which has unique elements that set it apart from general real estate sales.  Typically a Certified Probate Expert networks locally with service providers who also work in the estate environment from attorneys to liquidation and cleanout professionals, etc.

Bill Gross is the host of Probate Weekly, a podcast connecting real estate professionals specializing in probate work for the purpose of sharing and professional learning.  Bill is also a broker for eXp Realty in Los Angeles County.

The following transcript has been edited for readability.

EX: Welcome to Estate Talks. I’m George Compton the Publisher of Executorium.com.  Today we ask, “What is a Certified Probate Expert?”  Well we have Bill Gross of eXp Realty to answer…

Bill, what is a certified probate expert?

BG: Well thanks George. There are a number of different certifications in real estate. Almost all of them created by companies that offer to train and offer certification.  The most common or most popular that I’m aware of is the Certified Probate Expert designation by Probate Mastery. In my experience, having personally taken five of them, it’s the most comprehensive of the certifications. It’s not just, “Here’s how to get business,” but it’s also here’s how to better treat customers so that you’ll build a business in the long run.  So again, it’s a designation by company Probate Mastery, but I believe they also point their students in the direction of understanding the process that Executors go through and how to serve them better.

EX: Thank you for that.

Bill is a realtor and an investor. He is also the host of Probate Weekly and an admin and leader in the affiliated Facebook group. In that group, all sorts of probate and executor and estate administration questions get covered. To what Bill just said, knowing that environment helps certified probate experts understand that world.

Bill is also a teacher and a leader in probate real estate and speaks a lot about the value of a CPE to an executor.  We have a longer format video that Bill and I have done in the past where we do a deeper dive into CPE’s and how they can benefit estates and executors. We want to keep this short format so Bill, “What are three benefits of having a CPE work with an estate?”

BG: Well one is you’re dealing with a professional who is committed to being a professional.  Everybody knows five or six real estate agents, but not all have been through the unique legal process and emotional process that an executor might be going through, so that’s number one.

Number two would be that a CPE is part of a network that can bring more resources to help you.  So whether it be physical resources: cleaning the house out, staging the house, dealing with collectibles, moving, cars, guns, (you know) cleaning the house: rats, rodents, termites, legal issues, working with attorneys, different CPE’s bring different resources to bear. As an executor, you want to make sure you get a team that can help you and part of that is bringing a Rolodex and a list of resources to help you.

EX: Excellent. What are some of the challenges? You touched on/alluded to a couple of them or several of them just now, but what are some of the challenges particular to probate real estate?

BG: Well number one is, and often overlooked is, often the person who’s managing the estate, the executor or sometimes the administrator [or personal representative] has never bought or sold property before.  As a real estate agent, I’ve been in the business 36 years and I’ve sold and been involved with thousands of properties.  I have to remember that my customer in this case, may never have bought a house or sold a house, which is unusual.  That creates a whole different set of dynamics of learning – to explain the process and develop trust because as a real estate agent, I have a fiduciary responsibility to my customer. I have a lot of responsibility on their behalf of being honest and integrous and they have to have that relationship, and trust has to be there. So when I have a customer who I’ve bought and sold several houses for that’s easier, but most commonly for an executor, a first time – typically we don’t have that history in relationship. So, that’s one challenge that’s often overlooked.

A second is that the executor may or may not understand the business relationship and just see it as, “Hey I have to get rid of this house and move on with my life,” which is true.  The agent is in the business as a professional and so they want to create good relations that will lead to more business. I think as an executor your opportunity is if you do a good job can reflect well on that that real estate agent help them get more business in the long run it makes you more valuable as a customer and so you are in my mind as an executor, you are running a business. The business is, the disposition of the estate. If you take a more business-like approach to it then you can be more effective when working with other professionals.

EX: Thank you for that. What estate administration challenges might a Certified Probate Expert help an executor/an estate with, outside of real estate?

BG: Well, I mean the process can be overwhelming. Within real estate it can be overwhelming, outside of the real estate, you know, it’s just a never-ending supply of potential problems: Securing the property, removing squatters or occupants, maybe a family member, maybe not, maybe removing other unwanted items in the house, living or dead.  It could be animals, rodents, pests.  It could be junk, it could be dangerous junk. It could be guns. I’ve had to remove unregistered guns, it could be drugs.  I had a case where the decedent passed in the property and was not found for seven days.  Without getting too graphic, it does create incredible odors that require Hazmat level removal processes.

So having the contacts to get that done efficiently, cost-effectively [requires a network of professionals with particular capabilities, which a CPE is more likely to have.]

I always tell other people my business – I coach real estate agents that do this nationally, I tell them that normal realtors complain about all the problems in estate real estate – real professional probate experts brag about how many problems they solve each transaction. That’s really what we’re looking to do is to help our customers that way.

EX: Interesting. So this is the way I look at it from an executor’s side, having been an executor and approaching executorium.com as executor-facing, being in an executor shoes… Having someone on your team who knows the ropes isn’t a bad thing, knowing those pain points.

There’s an article on Executorium about, if an estate has guns, there’s an article on Executorium about, what if the house smells a little bit, in the last segment you and I talked about squatters.

So knowing the ropes is incredibly valuable to an estate and an executor.

One thing we discussed was the time periods.  You break down probate and estate administration into three time periods. Do you want to expound on that a little bit?

BG: The way I think of it is, there’s the pre-authorization period, there is the processing period, and there’s the post.

So, the pre-period looks like, “We have a problem, somebody passed and some assets have to change ownership.  (I most commonly get involved when there’s real estate.) So how do you do that, and what do you do before you have authority? That includes getting the right strategy for the legal process.   Sometimes that means in an introduction to the right attorney.  Sometimes it’s a legal service to save money if it’s a simple administrative case. But before you have the authority, and can really spend money, [it’s] protecting the assets.  Sometimes it means changing the lock, sometimes it means putting a fence up, it can be a lot of different things. But you don’t have the money perhaps. (There are people who can afford to advance the money [to the estate] and some people can’t.) So one of the big parts of my job is the right strategy – how do we want to advance the money?  Sometimes as an agent, I advance it as part of my business, sometimes we advance money to the heir.  So there’s that part of the process.

Then second, is during the probate or administrative process, complying with the legal requirements, working with the attorneys. I think that attorneys by nature aren’t salespeople, and yet the glue that holds deals together sometimes is communication and the sales.  So, as the realtor I’ll follow up, where the attorney won’t.  The biggest complaint I get from customers is that the attorneys don’t communicate with them enough. I think because by their nature, attorneys will return your phone call within a week because that’s the normal time period for them.  As real estate agents, we’re going to call back within the hour or the same day. So our job is to kind of help lubricate the transaction with the attorney to help the customer get what they need during the process.

And then at the end, what’s the plan afterward? Are you gonna cash out and buy a house? Are you going to cash out and move on?

So those are the three phases that we try to work through.

EX: Excellent thank you very much. Putting solid lines around that for an executor who’s starting down this road is incredibly valuable.

The ancillary services, say, just beyond the sale of the real property, are they charged outside of the commission?

BG: You know, they all vary. I think that there are some real estate agents who have one way they do it every time. My approach is – I’m a businessman, and it’s to see what the customer needs and offer the right solution for them.  So I can’t speak for other agents.

I’ve done cases in the last year where I just advanced money and got paid back at the close of escrow.  I’ve done other cases where I arranged for an advance or a loan for the heir and they worked that out amongst themselves, but I made the introduction.  And some things we just pay for. So it really depends on the case, and the customer, and the stage they’re in.  So my answer would be personally each solution is customized, but other people have a standard program.  Such as, they’ll always advance money, but they want to use their attorney, and they want to use this and that, and which is fine.  I think my approach is to be a little more flexible.

EX:  Every estate is different. We say that over and over again so realizing that every service provider is different is important to know for executors and proceed accordingly.

Referrals are something I like to bring up here because if you have somebody on your team and they’re providing referrals, I think that’s great because they’re going to know the environment, they’re going to know the locale.

I think it’s important to ask, is a referral fee being paid?  What is the relationship? I think that that’s fair for an executor to know the answers to those questions.

BG: In California, by law we’re required to disclose referral fees.  So laws vary by state.  To me, it just seems like good practice. And I’ll just say for the record, I don’t accept any referral fees – ever.  I do a job, I refer you the best provider, if they don’t do the job, I’ll find another provider.  I don’t want a referral fee that might cause me to overlook the quality of the service.

Now I do expect that people I refer to business regularly will refer me business as well – because I’m good at what I do. But I don’t like the idea of the referral fee. I think it clouds the judgment on what’s best for the customer.

I always train my team, the North Star is what’s best for the customer.  That’s the best vendor, and if the vendors want to do it for 25% less rather than pay me, they should give the customer the discount and and I should just do my job and get paid for my job.

EX: Well said.

It’s no accident that the that the logo for Executorium.com as a house turned over on its side but it’s also an arrow forward.  I think the CPE program is just a great resource to know about.  I encourage executors to ask questions in every aspect of estate administration.

You have to know that your real estate professional is a business person and I think that just goes without saying.

Bill we thank you for your knowledge on this important topic, “What is a Certified Probate Expert?” and your insights into the field of Probate Real Estate.

Thank you very much for watching all.

Ask good questions.

Bill Gross Bio

Born in Santa Monica, and raised in Orange County, Bill is a lifetime Californian.  He is a Real Estate Investor and Broker, working with eXp Realty of California out of San Ramon.  He is the host of Probate Weekly a podcast for CPE Real Estate professionals and associated professionals.

 

Disclaimer:  The opinions of Executorium’s Estate Talks hosts and Estate Talks guests are not necessarily the opinion of Executorium.com LLC, its principals, or its employees.